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Sticky LMI Players' Rating System
   LMI Tests -> Monthly Sudoku and Puzzle Tests238 posts • Page 4 of 10 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-17 6:34 PM (#4438 - in reply to #1357) (#4438) Top



Support Administrator, Converse Variations (SM 15/16) Author

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Updated LMI Puzzle Ratings after MAYnipulation (May 2011 LMI puzzle test), and LMI Sudoku Ratings after the April 2011 LMI sudoku test are now available.

The ratings are based on the new logic shared earlier. Four players find a place in the Top 10 in both lists - motris, deu, nikola and misko.

Overall 487 players (from 45 countries) are included in the sudoku ratings and 425 (from 44 countries) in the puzzle ratings.
kiwijam
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-18 4:20 AM (#4441 - in reply to #1357) (#4441) Top




Posts: 120
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Location: New Zealand
Rakesh, good work on the ratings list.
I can see I have a rating number now, and like most of us I'd like to improve it! But I don't know the numbers that were used to calculate it (like my last 12 scores), or the numbers for other puzzlers with similar ratings (these are the people I want to beat in the monthly test to move higher).
Is it possible to have a link to a full table also (like the 'pink' table of examples you published above)?
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-18 12:00 PM (#4442 - in reply to #4441) (#4442) Top



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kiwijam - 2011-05-18 4:20 AM

I can see I have a rating number now, and like most of us I'd like to improve it! But I don't know the numbers that were used to calculate it (like my last 12 scores), or the numbers for other puzzlers with similar ratings (these are the people I want to beat in the monthly test to move higher).
If you click on your name, you go to your profile page that contains scores in all tests that you have taken part. These are the numbers based on which your ratings are calculated. Note that your scores in TVC are not included for ratings. You can see the history of scores for any player this way.

Is it possible to have a link to a full table also (like the 'pink' table of examples you published above)?
We have shared the computation logic already. But we feel that a full table of numbers used during ratings calculation can be cumbersome and complex, so it may not be needed online.

But, since you have asked, your normalized scores in the three tests are 601, 670 and 723. And you have played only 3 tests so far. Although the weighted average rating (based on these tests) is 665, you are penalized by a small factor to arrive at your final rating which is 651 currently. Here is the 'pink' table for you:



(kiwijam.png)



Attachments
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Attachments kiwijam.png (10KB - 0 downloads)
debmohanty
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-18 12:06 PM (#4443 - in reply to #4442) (#4443) Top



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May be we should enhance the Profile page to display the pink table and related computations. It needs some amount of work. So no promises right now.
euklid
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-21 9:11 PM (#4467 - in reply to #4443) (#4467) Top




Posts: 27
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Location: Austria
I would love to see "my pink table" in my profile page! And I think I speak for many puzzlers here. :-)

Have fun, Stefan
Administrator
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-24 2:11 PM (#4496 - in reply to #4467) (#4496) Top


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euklid - 2011-05-21 9:11 PM

I would love to see "my pink table" in my profile page! And I think I speak for many puzzlers here. :-)

Have fun, Stefan
The profile page has the pink table now.
euklid
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-25 1:06 AM (#4507 - in reply to #4496) (#4507) Top




Posts: 27
20
Location: Austria
My Puzzle Rating is not correct. The weighted average of my NS should be 707, my rating is 724, though.

Are you sure that you have implemented the weighted average of the NS correctly? I arrive at approx. 724 when I compute a non-weighted(!) average of my results, including the EvergreensI-result which should have weight zero by now.

In the pink table I would love to see the EvergreensI data (NS,...) also. It has weight 0 of course but the data is available and interesting nevertheless.

Thanks,
Stefan
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-25 10:36 AM (#4508 - in reply to #4507) (#4508) Top



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euklid - 2011-05-25 1:06 AM

My Puzzle Rating is not correct. The weighted average of my NS should be 707, my rating is 724, though.

Are you sure that you have implemented the weighted average of the NS correctly? I arrive at approx. 724 when I compute a non-weighted(!) average of my results, including the EvergreensI-result which should have weight zero by now.
Thanks for pointing out this discrepancy. There are no problems with the implementation; however, we did find that your Twist score was completely missed in the ratings calculation. The ratings will be corrected today.

In the pink table I would love to see the EvergreensI data (NS,...) also. It has weight 0 of course but the data is available and interesting nevertheless.
OK. We'll include the ratings data (PS/RS/NS) for zero weight tests as well.

Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-05-25 10:37 AM
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-25 12:12 PM (#4509 - in reply to #4508) (#4509) Top



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rakesh_rai - 2011-05-25 10:36 AM

In the pink table I would love to see the EvergreensI data (NS,...) also. It has weight 0 of course but the data is available and interesting nevertheless.
OK. We'll include the ratings data (PS/RS/NS) for zero weight tests as well.
This is done. Now you can see your normalized scores for even those tests which are not included in current ratings (like EG1).
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-25 8:10 PM (#4514 - in reply to #4508) (#4514) Top



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rakesh_rai - 2011-05-25 10:36 AM

euklid - 2011-05-25 1:06 AM

My Puzzle Rating is not correct. The weighted average of my NS should be 707, my rating is 724, though.

Are you sure that you have implemented the weighted average of the NS correctly? I arrive at approx. 724 when I compute a non-weighted(!) average of my results, including the EvergreensI-result which should have weight zero by now.
Thanks for pointing out this discrepancy. There are no problems with the implementation; however, we did find that your Twist score was completely missed in the ratings calculation. The ratings will be corrected today.
The Puzzle Ratings have now been updated. Also, the sudoku ratings have been updated to rectify one error in Sampler Platter scores.
euklid
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-26 1:52 AM (#4516 - in reply to #4514) (#4516) Top




Posts: 27
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Location: Austria
One more request of minor importance. Is it possible to mark those players' names in the result tables who have opted not to be included in the LMI rating?

MaYnipulation has 83 participants according to result table but 82 participants according to the LMI rating. If the one player were marked somehow (e.g. asterix at his name), everybody could calculate his LMI rating for himself and "verify" the correctness of the official LMI rating. :-)
debmohanty
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-26 9:50 PM (#4520 - in reply to #4516) (#4520) Top



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That is a reasonable request - we should do it in next test.
Thanks for all the suggestions, however minor they may be, they certainly are missing.

Please don't hesitate to suggest any other things!
Administrator
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-28 12:26 PM (#4536 - in reply to #4516) (#4536) Top


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euklid - 2011-05-26 1:52 AM

One more request of minor importance. Is it possible to mark those players' names in the result tables who have opted not to be included in the LMI rating?

MaYnipulation has 83 participants according to result table but 82 participants according to the LMI rating. If the one player were marked somehow (e.g. asterix at his name), everybody could calculate his LMI rating for himself and "verify" the correctness of the official LMI rating. :-)

This is done. You should see * next to the name for players who opt not to include their score in ratings.
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-05-31 8:53 PM (#4643 - in reply to #1357) (#4643) Top



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The sudoku ratings are updated after Something is Missing.

motris, deu, misko, nikola and jaku111 are the Top 5.

This was the 13th LMI sudoku test and, hence, Mastermind Twins are excluded from the ratings now.

Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-05-31 8:53 PM
euklid
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-02 11:39 AM (#4662 - in reply to #4643) (#4662) Top




Posts: 27
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Location: Austria
My Sudoku rating is 623 now, which is incorrect. It should be 681. Please check.

Stefan
debmohanty
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-02 12:09 PM (#4663 - in reply to #4662) (#4663) Top



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This looks like a big computation mistake somewhere in the system, hope I'm wrong.
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-02 6:31 PM (#4665 - in reply to #4662) (#4665) Top



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euklid - 2011-06-02 11:39 AM

My Sudoku rating is 623 now, which is incorrect. It should be 681. Please check.
The rating system, for some reason, likes you.

Yes. This was another error which had gone unnoticed somehow. Thanks for spotting it. Those who scored equal to the test median score are affected. For example, you scored 145 in the last sudoku test which happened to be the median score as well. And the system was giving PS as 50 instead of 500. The correct ratings should be up soon.
euklid
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-03 7:29 PM (#4671 - in reply to #4665) (#4671) Top




Posts: 27
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Location: Austria
Thanks for finding the mistake and correcting it. Still there remains a small(?) mistake since I have a sudoku rating of 688 now but should have 681.

My Normalized Scores (NS) given at my profile are correct, i.e. they are the same that I did compute myself.

But then, the rating must be:
(492+837+696+643*.8+721*.8+711*.6)/5.2=681

Since rounding errors are not sufficient to explain the difference of 7 points, there still must be a mistake.

Good luck for finding the error,
Stefan

P.S.: My prorated Score (PS) of the SomethingIsMissing test was always given as 500 at my profile. This proves that you have calculated the PS two times. One time to display it at my profile (PS=500) and one time to calculate my rating (there you used PS=50). Computing two times is always dangerous (if you adapt the rating in the future you will always have to do it twice...) but it might have some practical reasons. A similar mistake based on double computation must still be currently in place.
debmohanty
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-03 8:45 PM (#4675 - in reply to #4671) (#4675) Top



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We are having an issue here - we've 2 different systems
1) Rakesh uses excel to compute all ratings and uploads after every test
2) What you see in profile page is directly computed from the score sheet

There are minor differences in computation in these 2 systems because of which we are seeing this difference.

As a first step, we are working on making sure that 1) and 2) are same.
As a future step, we are planning to get rid of 1) so that we've all the computation at one place. This will take a while because of the complexity involved.
rakesh_rai
Subject: Puzzle Ratings updated @ 2011-06-11 1:42 PM (#4803 - in reply to #1357) (#4803) Top



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The LMI Puzzle Ratings have been updated after Fillomino Fillia.

The Top 5: Motris, Deu, Uvo, MelloMelon and Nikola

Edited by rakesh_rai 2011-06-21 9:28 PM
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-21 9:28 PM (#4929 - in reply to #1357) (#4929) Top



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The LMI Sudoku Ratings have been updated after L O G I D O K U.

The Top 5: Motris, Nikola, Jaku111, Misko and Deu.
euklid
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-23 9:54 PM (#4949 - in reply to #4929) (#4949) Top




Posts: 27
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Location: Austria
Just in case that it is a still unknown bug:

My rank score (RS) for "Something is missing" has suddenly changed from 469 to 573. That would mean that the number of participants has jumped from 96 to 119,5 (my rank of #52 has not changed).
My rank score (RS) for "X'mas Special" has suddenly changed from 734 to 770. That would mean that the number of participants has jumped from 139 to 161 (my rank of #38 has not changed).

My prorated scores (PS) have not changed.

Stefan
rakesh_rai
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-24 12:45 AM (#4950 - in reply to #4949) (#4950) Top



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euklid - 2011-06-23 9:54 PM

My rank score (RS) for "Something is missing" has suddenly changed from 469 to 573. That would mean that the number of participants has jumped from 96 to 119,5 (my rank of #52 has not changed).
My rank score (RS) for "X'mas Special" has suddenly changed from 734 to 770. That would mean that the number of participants has jumped from 139 to 161 (my rank of #38 has not changed).

No bug here. Number of participants stays the same.

debmohanty - 2011-06-03 8:45 PM

There are minor differences in computation in these 2 systems because of which we are seeing this difference.
As a first step, we are working on making sure that 1) and 2) are same.

This step is completed, that is the reason you are seeing these changes.

Probably the calculations are not so obvious from the given formula. For rating calculations, if two players have the same score, they will have the same RS, even if they are actually ranked N and N+1 respectively, in the test. So, the effective formula becomes

RS = (1 - [No of scores > your score] / [No of non zero scores])*1000

Interestingly, the significant variations that you see are because 13 other players scored the same as your score in XMas Special, and 12 other players scored equal to you in Something is Missing.
euklid
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-24 2:17 PM (#4953 - in reply to #4950) (#4953) Top




Posts: 27
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Location: Austria
Thanks for the explanation, rakesh. Now I understand.

In the pdf explaining the new rating system (V2.0) it said:

"RS=[1-(No of players ranked above the player)/(Total players with non zero scores)]*1000"

Actually I find this original formula better than the current implementation because the rank score (RS) should depend on the rank only whereas the prorated score (PS) should depend on the points only. As you have implemented the formula now, two players with the same points get the same PS AND the same RS. With the original formula the player that sent his last answer earlier has the higher rank and a small benefit at his RS and thus at his normalized score (NS).

Of course I am well aware that one could argue that the time when one sends his/her last answer does not need to be very significant. But then, consequently, all players with the same score should be awarded the same rank in the result table. My rank in "Something is Missing" should then be 42 instead of 52. If the scoring system uses the rank 42 it should be shown in all statistics.

In my opinion, the current ranking should remain (i.e. rank 52 for my "Something is Missing") and the RS formula should use this rank. I know that this would take away RS (and NS) points from all players, nobody will increase his score.

Stefan

[edit:] Just to make sure that I am not misinterpreted. Please note that I am very happy with the ranking system and can easily accept everything that you want to implement. All my comments are opinions and suggestions only and in no way intended as negative criticism.

Edited by euklid 2011-06-24 2:28 PM
debmohanty
Subject: Re: LMI Players' Rating System @ 2011-06-24 2:44 PM (#4954 - in reply to #4953) (#4954) Top



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euklid - 2011-06-24 2:17 PM

[edit:] Just to make sure that I am not misinterpreted. Please note that I am very happy with the ranking system and can easily accept everything that you want to implement. All my comments are opinions and suggestions only and in no way intended as negative criticism.

All your comments are really appreciated.
I think we should do the changes that you noticed. The logic in 'View Profile' page is rather easy to change. I guess Rakesh will take some time to update the excel sheets.
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