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WSPC Organizer
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Location: India | motris - 2010-11-20 10:41 PM
This discussion brings up another point which is that we do set time limits on tests that don't necessarily need to be hard limits. 1h or 75 minutes could also be used on this test, and more solvers get an opportunity to finish, without compromising the quality of the puzzles. I wonder if I should experiment with a whole new scoring format on my next LMI test (many, many months away) where perhaps there isn't a set clock, but instead the value of the puzzles declines with time. So solvers that finish the whole test in 50 minutes will get more points than someone that spreads it out over the weekend and takes 6 hours, but everyone can enjoy the test at their own speed, within the two day window, and if things like printer errors or internet disconnections or phone calls come up, you can still continue the test after the interruption ends (but with a small sacrifice to your score).
Ours Brun had organised a championship in May last year in which the scoring format reflects what you suggested. I quite liked the idea and it will be interesting to see if someone takes that up.
More about the contest here: http://rohanrao.blogspot.com/2009/05/sudoku-tournament-by-ours-brun... |
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Location: Canada | It would be interesting to do a test with no time limit, because I'm curious how long it would take me to complete this (or any other test, for that matter). It would have to be a shorter test like the FLIP, because I'll never get more than two hours at a time to solve one, (much less the 10 hours it would take me to do something like the USPC). Maybe the points could be based entirely on how quickly someone finishes the test, with demerits based on how many puzzles remain unsolved (or wrong)? Of course then the solver would have to figure out if it's worth more to check for errors or to keep the points.What about having 10 different PDFs, with 10 different passwords, and a week to solve all 10 puzzles? |
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Posts: 199
Location: United States | figonometry - 2010-11-20 11:03 PM
What about having 10 different PDFs, with 10 different passwords, and a week to solve all 10 puzzles?
Because of the disparity in printing out paper and such, fragmenting a test into so many pieces may not be such a good idea. But this would be an ideal option for a test that could be solved on an applet. Take a sudoku test that can be solved online; it would be an interesting format to set up 10 "start" buttons for 10 puzzles, so the individual time for each could then be recorded. Maybe scoring is based on finishing puzzles (so time doesn't matter) and top 20 solvers on each puzzle by time get small amount of bonus. So it is a race for the best solvers, and a slightly more relaxed competition that can be done over a weekend without needing 2 straight hours for everyone else. |
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Posts: 172
Location: ITALY | Just to let anyone know that a Sudoku contest based on this very principle is currently running on argio-logic.net at this address [url]http://www.argio-logic.net/?p=headshrinker[/url]
the contest is based on "tough" diagrams (er, at least for me...) and the time starts ticking when a player opens an applet (take care not to open two or more applets at the same time...)
if you want to have a try.....
Stefano
Edited by forcolin 2010-11-21 12:06 AM
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Odd Even & Twisted Classics (SM 16/17) Author
Posts: 460
Location: India | Great puzzles David.... It was real fun attempting these.... looking more of such puzzles to keep me interested :D
0-2-5 and the mirrors were great fun.... |
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Posts: 152
Location: United Kingdom | Thanks David - short and sweet - and definitely well executed. And not forgetting Deb on the ESB too - an entertaining puzzle! |
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Posts: 172
Location: ITALY | david and deb
I typed the results for the puzzle 4 BOTH BOTTOM LINES instead of as marked (last second rush) - I wonder if I can be awarded the points for that puzzle
by the way all diagrams (at least all those I solved) were very exciting - and I like this sort of "blitz" contests. easier to find an hour in a (usually) busy weekend rather than 2.5 hours
Stefano
Edited by forcolin 2010-11-21 3:51 AM
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Location: India | forcolin - 2010-11-21 3:42 AM
I typed the results for the puzzle 4 BOTH BOTTOM LINES instead of as marked (last second rush) - I wonder if I can be awarded the points for that puzzle
Stefano Yes, awarded. It is taking little more time to check the claims this time because of unstable internet connections, but all the claims will be checked before the final results.
That brings me to the very interesting discussion motris has started.
1) Given a set - e.g. Decathlon - how much time should the test run so that everyone can enjoy the puzzles?
It is likely that many players don't get to solve the puzzles once the test is over. And also there is some incentive for solving the puzzle after the 'official' time.
It will be very interesting to have the points reduce with time. I think Gotroch had proposed something similar earlier.
2) The other issue is players not finding enough time at a stretch.
This is a problem for most especially given that there are so many internet competitions these days, and all of them offer something different.
Splitting into 10 sets is rather difficult to manage, but what about splitting into 2 sets each of one hour?
Those who find it difficult to get 2 hours at a stretch, may take the tests in 2 parts.
Players who needs some warm up can take the full test at a stretch.
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Odd Even & Twisted Classics (SM 16/17) Author
Posts: 460
Location: India | forcolin - 2010-11-21 12:00 AM
Just to let anyone know that a Sudoku contest based on this very principle is currently running on argio-logic.net at this address [url]http://www.argio-logic.net/?p=headshrinker[/url]
the contest is based on "tough" diagrams (er, at least for me...) and the time starts ticking when a player opens an applet (take care not to open two or more applets at the same time...)
if you want to have a try.....
Stefano
Hi Stefano,
yes that is exactly the kind of contest that is being proposed with no time limit.... the best part is there are 3 Indians in the top 4 positions with a canadian participant at 3rd, Cant remember when that happened last time :D
The position might change as the competition is still on and somebody could always solve it faster. 
Rishi |
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Location: India | purifire - 2010-11-21 8:14 AM
yes that is exactly the kind of contest that is being proposed with no time limit I'm not sure what you mean by "exactly that kind". I thought Headshrinkers is about (very-)hard Sudokus, and that is why the contest has no time-limit.
The purpose is completely different here. |
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Odd Even & Twisted Classics (SM 16/17) Author
Posts: 460
Location: India | debmohanty - 2010-11-21 8:24 AM
purifire - 2010-11-21 8:14 AM
yes that is exactly the kind of contest that is being proposed with no time limit I'm not sure what you mean by "exactly that kind". I thought Headshrinkers is about (very- )hard Sudokus, and that is why the contest has no time-limit.
The purpose is completely different here.
When I say exactly that kind of contest I mean a contest with no time limit... I am not referring to the difficulty level of the puzzles....
The discussion here is about a competition which does not have a time limit. However this type of contest is possible only in an online format ... unless a separate pdf is created for individual puzzles and time for each puzzle calculated when the pwd for individual puzzle is taken from the site.
Rishi |
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Posts: 5
Location: India | Very nice set of puzzles, David!
It was nice solving some JUST ARITHMETIC puzzles (Sequences, Strips), instead of the regular GRID-based logic puzzles
Also, for a change, the timing was nice - short and sweet (though i could solve hardly few of them)
Edited by SrikanthB 2010-11-21 11:56 AM
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Posts: 10
Location: India | Hi David,
Amazing set of puzzles!
Thanks a ton for making my week-end thrilling.
Flip n Sequence & 0-2-5 Mirror was great!
3 Cheers,
Keshav
Edited by keshava.hs 2010-11-21 12:12 PM
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SM 2020 (Math) Author
Posts: 157
Location: India | while submitting the answer for flip shape sudoku , we were asked to submit the answer for the 7th row of the first sudoku, but there was also no. 4 marked in an arrow on the left side of the first sudoku. so i thought we had to type row 4 for the answer. so i got it wrong. it will be very kind of the administrators to look into the matter and if possible consider row 4 as my answer and if correct , grant me points for that.......... akash |
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Location: India | akash.doulani - 2010-11-21 5:26 PM
while submitting the answer for flip shape sudoku , we were asked to submit the answer for the 7th row of the first sudoku, but there was also no. 4 marked in an arrow on the left side of the first sudoku. so i thought we had to type row 4 for the answer. so i got it wrong. it will be very kind of the administrators to look into the matter and if possible consider row 4 as my answer and if correct , grant me points for that.......... akash
Done
Hope you liked the puzzles. |
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Posts: 83
Location: Czech Republic | Administrator - 2010-11-21 5:34 PM
akash.doulani - 2010-11-21 5:26 PM
while submitting the answer for flip shape sudoku , we were asked to submit the answer for the 7th row of the first sudoku, but there was also no. 4 marked in an arrow on the left side of the first sudoku. so i thought we had to type row 4 for the answer. so i got it wrong. it will be very kind of the administrators to look into the matter and if possible consider row 4 as my answer and if correct , grant me points for that.......... akash
Done
Hope you liked the puzzles.
Same thing Akash mentioned, happened to me. Could you please grant me points too. |
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Location: India | Gotroch - 2010-11-21 6:10 PM
Same thing Akash mentioned, happened to me. Could you please grant me points too. Done |
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Posts: 31
Location: United Kingdom | I entered the wrong key for #4 - I put in the contents of the greyed area rather than the arrowed rows. Any chance of upgrading my score from 'disastrous' to just 'miserable' ?
Nice puzzles - not enough time for me. Will enjoy them later... Thank-you for the contest! |
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Location: India | PuzzleScot - 2010-11-21 11:04 PM
I entered the wrong key for #4 - I put in the contents of the greyed area rather than the arrowed rows. Any chance of upgrading my score from 'disastrous' to just 'miserable' ?
Done |
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Posts: 12
Location: United States | If someone could check my entry for #1, it would be appreciated. I can't really explain it here without giving away part of the solution, but I think the error there should be fairly clear to someone who looks at it. (Unfortunately, the other 0's I submitted are all legitimately incorrect solutions  )
Thanks to David for the interesting puzzle set, and especially to everyone affiliated with LMI who contributes to administering these contests every month. |
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Posts: 12
Location: United Kingdom | David and Deb
Great test, lots of fun, although as a Maths teacher, I could have done with less adding up.
Time seemed fine to me - I wouldn't expect to finish one of these (and I didn't, obviously) - maybe 60 minutes would have been better, but I still wouldn't have caught the thing that caused me to waste a lot of time on one puzzle (won't say what for fear of spoilers)
Cheers
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Posts: 4
Location: United Kingdom | Very enjoyable set of tests.
I realise I have entered the incorrect key for #4. I entered the bottom row of both puzzles rather than the 3rd row of the right hand puzzle. I'm relatively confident I have the correct solution, although of course won't give it away here. Any chance of rescuing some points for that puzzle??? |
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Posts: 13
Location: United States | Would it be possible to check my answer to #7? I separated lines by commas and the system did not like it. Thanks. |
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Posts: 13
Location: United States | Dave, thanks for a very nice set of puzzles! I will definitely finish the remaining ones not to miss any fun :-). |
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Posts: 43
Location: United States | Hi Deb -
I also entered the yellow-outlined areas on #4 as my answers ....
In any case, compliments to David for some very clever puzzles (I ran out of time, so I will enjoy Deb's ESB later).
Best regards
Dave
Edited by davep 2010-11-22 3:24 AM
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LMI November Puzzle Test - FLIP
