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Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 18th April 2020
   LMI Tests -> Annual Competitions166 posts • Page 3 of 7 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
athin
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 6:58 PM (#27940 - in reply to #27868) (#27940) Top





Posts: 11

Location: Indonesia
Puzzle 11:

If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row?
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 7:13 PM (#27941 - in reply to #27868) (#27941) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
I can't imagine what the currently stated version of the Town puzzle asks us to do, if it is different from what I and many others are confident that it is.
Puzlifouk
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 7:47 PM (#27942 - in reply to #27868) (#27942) Top




Posts: 67
202020
Location: France
Puzzle 2: the answer format is quite strange. Why from right to left. And it is from right to left for the first diagonal too ? Or you mean from to bottom, for the two diagonals ?
Puzlifouk
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 7:49 PM (#27943 - in reply to #27942) (#27943) Top




Posts: 67
202020
Location: France
Oops, sorry. It's explained on the answering form ...
SP1
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 9:08 PM (#27944 - in reply to #27936) (#27944) Top




Posts: 8

Location: Japan
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM

panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM

Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?

Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.



Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:


Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule)
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.


However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:


Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules)
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!!)
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.


Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify!
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 9:20 PM (#27945 - in reply to #27944) (#27945) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
This has been asked several times, but not clarified yet. Looks like the reviewers did not care to check the optimizers. While I am sure it has to be the first version, the author himself has turned it around. The second version is trivial and makes no sense. If that is what is expected, I don't get it, and don't like the puzzle.
Riad Khanmagomedov
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 10:11 PM (#27946 - in reply to #27944) (#27946) Top


Moscow Puzzle Cup 2016 Author

Posts: 234
10010020
Location: Russia
SP1 - 2020-04-11 9:08 PM

Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM

panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM

Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?

Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.



Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:


Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule)
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.


However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:


Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules)
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!!)
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.


Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify!

I now understand where the questions came from. In the September Contest 2010, I published the Town puzzle. When solving this puzzle, we used the condition that the white area does not have 2x2 fragments. I repeated the name of the puzzle in 2020, but without looking back at the previous work. This point probably confused the solvers. In this April Contest, I suggest using the second option that you have described.
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 10:15 PM (#27947 - in reply to #27868) (#27947) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
As I said a couple of times today, the second version does not appeal to me. I reject it, unless someone can explain how it works. Also, I don't have my question about my subbmission answered yet. I think the admins are not available today to send you my submission.
SP1
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-11 10:40 PM (#27948 - in reply to #27946) (#27948) Top




Posts: 8

Location: Japan
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 10:11 PM

SP1 - 2020-04-11 9:08 PM

Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM

panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM

Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?

Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.



Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:


Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule)
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.


However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:


Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules)
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!!)
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.


Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify!

I now understand where the questions came from. In the September Contest 2010, I published the Town puzzle. When solving this puzzle, we used the condition that the white area does not have 2x2 fragments. I repeated the name of the puzzle in 2020, but without looking back at the previous work. This point probably confused the solvers. In this April Contest, I suggest using the second option that you have described.


I see how it is. OK, now I consider this optimization by using the latter option. Thank you for your reply!
WTM
Subject: RE: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 2:28 AM (#27949 - in reply to #27868) (#27949) Top




Posts: 4

Location: Czech Republic
Puzzle 8: As I understand it, the sides along the entire grid don't need to be filled in, is that correct? Otherwise it would have no solutions, if I'm looking correctly. But still, even if they don't all have to be filled in, can at least some of them be filled in?
athin
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 4:56 AM (#27950 - in reply to #27868) (#27950) Top





Posts: 11

Location: Indonesia
Oh well, I already had a nice construction for the first interpretation, now I have to update it (or maybe scrapped it).. Hope this kind of misunderstanding doesn't come in later contests.

To clarify again, the solution of the town puzzle may have 2x2 cells. But if it happens, then it will get absolute 0 points. Is this correct?
mstang
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 6:44 AM (#27951 - in reply to #27868) (#27951) Top





Posts: 74
202020
Location: United States
Puzzle 9: Are Fillomino rules in effect, where polyominoes of the same size must not be orthogonally adjacent? Or can they be adjacent?
Kithyane
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 12:42 PM (#27953 - in reply to #27951) (#27953) Top




Posts: 49
2020
Location: France
mstang - 2020-04-12 2:44 AM

Puzzle 9: Are Fillomino rules in effect, where polyominoes of the same size must not be orthogonally adjacent? Or can they be adjacent?


They can be adjacent.
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 12:47 PM (#27954 - in reply to #27951) (#27954) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
LOL.. sloppy work. I suspect the testers didn't have a look at the file.
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 12:49 PM (#27955 - in reply to #27950) (#27955) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
Yes, 2x2 areas are fine, but give no points. 1xN streets will earn you points. I suppose the admin has vowed not to reply to any of the questions, but to take down posts.

Edited by anurag 2020-04-12 12:50 PM
athin
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 2:04 PM (#27956 - in reply to #27940) (#27956) Top





Posts: 11

Location: Indonesia
athin - 2020-04-11 6:58 PM

Puzzle 11:

If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row?


Sorry before, but this question hasn't replied yet. I'm afraid it's missed because of the puzzle 10 discussion. Thanks
DanAvi
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 2:07 PM (#27957 - in reply to #27908) (#27957) Top




Posts: 23
20
Location: India
2 is the easiest solve, I guess, since even I have solved it
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-12 11:43 PM (#27958 - in reply to #27868) (#27958) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
Puzzle 11: If the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not share borders with other cards, is it acceptable?
EoHeongMat
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-13 12:12 PM (#27959 - in reply to #27868) (#27959) Top




Posts: 7

Location: South Korea
Puzzle 5:
1. In example, is there reason that [0,0] should be used?
2. Should "ALL" dominoes are placed? If so, why is there no [1,1]?

Edited by EoHeongMat 2020-04-13 12:13 PM
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-13 12:59 PM (#27960 - in reply to #27959) (#27960) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
EoHeongMat - 2020-04-13 12:12 PM

Puzzle 5:
1. In example, is there reason that [0,0] should be used?
2. Should "ALL" dominoes are placed? If so, why is there no [1,1]?


1. It is simply that examples are illustrative and some authors usually make examples without putting much effort into it. There is no specific reason why [0,0] has to be there. It has multiple solutions. However, I would think it is advisable to have the example illustrate all rules.
2. Most likely not. I believe all are to be used. But I could not make progress beyond the right-most column, so I can't tell for sure.
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-13 1:18 PM (#27961 - in reply to #27868) (#27961) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
What about the answer key for Diamonds? How can we specify the borders and numbers?
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-13 1:28 PM (#27962 - in reply to #27940) (#27962) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
athin - 2020-04-11 6:58 PM

Puzzle 11:

If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row?


Yes, that should be fine.
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-13 1:55 PM (#27963 - in reply to #27868) (#27963) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
Puzzle 11: The instructions miss one more detail: All cards must be connected.
Or is that not required?
athin
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-13 4:53 PM (#27964 - in reply to #27961) (#27964) Top





Posts: 11

Location: Indonesia
I'll try to help answering some queries:

Puzzle 5:
- You should put ALL cards. That's why [0,0] are in the example. I have solved this puzzle so the rules should be good.

Puzzle 11:
- All cards are not required to be connected. And surely, if the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not contradict with the rule (i.e. not sharing an edge), it is acceptable. Because.. some cards are basically subset of another card.
- For the answer key, we don't need to specify the border and number because the instance of the puzzle is just a grid with some diamonds in some cells.
anurag
Subject: Re: Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 16th April 2020 @ 2020-04-13 5:53 PM (#27965 - in reply to #27964) (#27965) Top




Posts: 136
10020
Location: India
athin - 2020-04-13 4:53 PM

I'll try to help answering some queries:

Puzzle 11:
- All cards are not required to be connected. And surely, if the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not contradict with the rule (i.e. not sharing an edge), it is acceptable. Because.. some cards are basically subset of another card.
- For the answer key, we don't need to specify the border and number because the instance of the puzzle is just a grid with some diamonds in some cells.


There is some confusion about the answer key, as I mentioned earlier. I would like this to be cleared.
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