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Posts: 55
Location: India | Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 5:55 PM
Take a look at an example of the Town puzzle. Let's delete the given digit 2. Stefano assumed that the solution would be with a dark square. But the verifier (Deb or I) can declare the middle of the example white. The digit 2 is necessary for the uniqueness of the solution.
But the rules of the puzzle state no 2*2 area can be completely white, which ensures that middle of the mini example has to be a 2*2 block of shaded cells!!,based on the other 0 clues. They cant be taken as white as that is not even a solution in the first place.I dont see how uniqueness comes into the picture here?? How is the outside clue 2 essential as per the rules?
Also, going by your statement,every row or column that has shaded cells should be clued with an outside digit, or else they will be assumed by you as white?
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Posts: 136
Location: India | Prnav: That's the whole point! If you read my first query regarding this puzzle, it was there to verify the same thing, whether the 2x2 constraint has to be considered during the design (and I am sure it has to be). But now, the author's statement implies NOT. Which is surprising. Apparently nice and easy puzzle, but so much discussion surrounding it. |
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Posts: 11
Location: Indonesia | Puzzle 10:
I'm pretty confident about my understanding of puzzle 10, so I may rephrase the definition of streets as: "if you treat the final board as a crossword, then the street is a single word, so the number of street will be the number of words in this crossword."
And also, I have to agree that without 2 in the example, the solution should be unique as there shouldn't be any 2x2 of white cells. The proposed "alternative solution" fails this constraint.
This is my opinion btw, surely it will be great for the organizers to clarify this. |
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Posts: 11
Location: Indonesia | Puzzle 11:
If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row? |
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Posts: 136
Location: India | I can't imagine what the currently stated version of the Town puzzle asks us to do, if it is different from what I and many others are confident that it is. |
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Posts: 67
Location: France | Puzzle 2: the answer format is quite strange. Why from right to left. And it is from right to left for the first diagonal too ? Or you mean from to bottom, for the two diagonals ? |
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Posts: 67
Location: France | Oops, sorry. It's explained on the answering form ... |
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Posts: 8
Location: Japan | Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM
panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM
Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.
Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule)
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules)
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!!)
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify! |
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Posts: 136
Location: India | This has been asked several times, but not clarified yet. Looks like the reviewers did not care to check the optimizers. While I am sure it has to be the first version, the author himself has turned it around. The second version is trivial and makes no sense. If that is what is expected, I don't get it, and don't like the puzzle. |
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Moscow Puzzle Cup 2016 Author
Posts: 234
Location: Russia | SP1 - 2020-04-11 9:08 PM
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM
panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM
Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.
Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule )
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules )
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!! )
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify!
I now understand where the questions came from. In the September Contest 2010, I published the Town puzzle. When solving this puzzle, we used the condition that the white area does not have 2x2 fragments. I repeated the name of the puzzle in 2020, but without looking back at the previous work. This point probably confused the solvers. In this April Contest, I suggest using the second option that you have described. |
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Posts: 136
Location: India | As I said a couple of times today, the second version does not appeal to me. I reject it, unless someone can explain how it works. Also, I don't have my question about my subbmission answered yet. I think the admins are not available today to send you my submission. |
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Posts: 8
Location: Japan | Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 10:11 PM
SP1 - 2020-04-11 9:08 PM
Riad Khanmagomedov - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM
panista - 2020-04-11 5:28 PM
Puzzle 10: I have a question about the sentence "The white cells must form streets. The white area of the streets cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells."
Is this the rule of a Town puzzle or the restriction on answers (in this case, a Town puzzle is the same as a so-called Clouds puzzle)?
For example, the mini-example without "2" is valid or invalid?
Without the digit 2, the example does not have a unique solution.
Oh... I maybe misunderstand the rules of "Town puzzle"...
My former interpretation is as follows:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules:
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
(<- the rules of "Clouds" + street rule )
Conditions for optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
However I read this reply and guess that the following interpretation is true:
Make a Town puzzle with a unique solution in the 12x10 grid.
"Town puzzle" rules
Place some dark rectangles, that are at least two cells wide and two cells high.
They can not touch each other, not even diagonally.
The numbers outside the grid show the number of dark cells in the corresponding row or column.
(<- exactly "Clouds" rules )
Restriction on the answer grid: (= NOT "Town puzzle" RULE!!! ONLY FOR OPTIMIZATION!!! )
The white cells must form streets - the any stretches with a width of one cell and length at least 2.
The white area cannot contain fragments of 2x2 cells.
Conditions of the optimization:
Maximize N, the number of streets.
If two solutions have the same N, then the solution with the smaller sum of the given numbers is considered better.
Which interpretation is correct? Or still misunderstanding? Please clarify!
I now understand where the questions came from. In the September Contest 2010, I published the Town puzzle. When solving this puzzle, we used the condition that the white area does not have 2x2 fragments. I repeated the name of the puzzle in 2020, but without looking back at the previous work. This point probably confused the solvers. In this April Contest, I suggest using the second option that you have described.
I see how it is. OK, now I consider this optimization by using the latter option. Thank you for your reply! |
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Posts: 4
Location: Czech Republic | Puzzle 8: As I understand it, the sides along the entire grid don't need to be filled in, is that correct? Otherwise it would have no solutions, if I'm looking correctly. But still, even if they don't all have to be filled in, can at least some of them be filled in? |
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Posts: 11
Location: Indonesia | Oh well, I already had a nice construction for the first interpretation, now I have to update it (or maybe scrapped it).. Hope this kind of misunderstanding doesn't come in later contests.
To clarify again, the solution of the town puzzle may have 2x2 cells. But if it happens, then it will get absolute 0 points. Is this correct? |
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Posts: 74
Location: United States | Puzzle 9: Are Fillomino rules in effect, where polyominoes of the same size must not be orthogonally adjacent? Or can they be adjacent? |
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Posts: 49
Location: France | mstang - 2020-04-12 2:44 AM
Puzzle 9: Are Fillomino rules in effect, where polyominoes of the same size must not be orthogonally adjacent? Or can they be adjacent?
They can be adjacent. |
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Posts: 136
Location: India | LOL.. sloppy work. I suspect the testers didn't have a look at the file. |
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Posts: 136
Location: India | Yes, 2x2 areas are fine, but give no points. 1xN streets will earn you points. I suppose the admin has vowed not to reply to any of the questions, but to take down posts.
Edited by anurag 2020-04-12 12:50 PM
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Posts: 11
Location: Indonesia | athin - 2020-04-11 6:58 PM
Puzzle 11:
If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row?
Sorry before, but this question hasn't replied yet. I'm afraid it's missed because of the puzzle 10 discussion. Thanks |
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Posts: 23
Location: India | 2 is the easiest solve, I guess, since even I have solved it |
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Posts: 136
Location: India | Puzzle 11: If the solution has multiple occurences of a card, but only one that does not share borders with other cards, is it acceptable? |
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Posts: 7
Location: South Korea | Puzzle 5:
1. In example, is there reason that [0,0] should be used?
2. Should "ALL" dominoes are placed? If so, why is there no [1,1]?
Edited by EoHeongMat 2020-04-13 12:13 PM
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Posts: 136
Location: India | EoHeongMat - 2020-04-13 12:12 PM
Puzzle 5:
1. In example, is there reason that [0,0] should be used?
2. Should "ALL" dominoes are placed? If so, why is there no [1,1]?
1. It is simply that examples are illustrative and some authors usually make examples without putting much effort into it. There is no specific reason why [0,0] has to be there. It has multiple solutions. However, I would think it is advisable to have the example illustrate all rules.
2. Most likely not. I believe all are to be used. But I could not make progress beyond the right-most column, so I can't tell for sure.
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Posts: 136
Location: India | What about the answer key for Diamonds? How can we specify the borders and numbers? |
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Posts: 136
Location: India | athin - 2020-04-11 6:58 PM
Puzzle 11:
If for example I only use 5 rows x 10 columns table, should I just put only the contents in row 1 to 5? And should I just put 10 characters in one row?
Yes, that should be fine. |
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WSPC 2017 • Schedule • Participation • Location • WSC • WPC • Contact •Search •Recent
Riad Khanmagomedov's April Contest — 8th to 18th April 2020
