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Posts: 69
Location: Germany | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Very skewed | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | A bit too many puzzles | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Most puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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An LMI Player with Sudoku ratings 500+ | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Most puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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Posts: 16
Location: Hungary | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | All puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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Posts: 42
Location: ITALY | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | A bit skewed | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | A bit too many puzzles | |
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Posts: 6
Location: United States | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | A bit skewed | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Too many easy puzzles | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | All puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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An LMI Player with Sudoku ratings 500- | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | All puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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Posts: 11
Location: Bulgaria | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | All puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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Posts: 199
Location: United States | kishy72 - 2013-04-21 12:25 AM
* I dont think the point distribution was fair at all.It was very skewed.It could have been way better.For example,i dont think the quadruple was worth 32 points at all .It was certainly much more than that(atleast 60) compared with how other sudokus are weighed.And the surprise factor in Renban makes it surely deserve much more than just 36 points.By surprise factor i mean how the shaded cells were present extending into other regions.Weighing one sudoku with 157 points and the rest except 2 , not given even half the points is surely not the way to go .
I think your question should be focused more on the spread of difficulty of the puzzles than on the specific scoring. In other words, the proper constructive spirit of your points are: Should a test have a puzzle that takes five times as long as another? Should it then be scored so that it is worth five times the other?
The first is really the question of test balance. The second is just the organizers determining what is fair. There is a lot of variation in how people view the first question but I don't believe there is much variation with the second. If, in a timed heat, something takes twice as long to do as another task it is most often awarded twice the value without any question. The "points per minute" value is meant to be close to constant.
All test authors make their best attempts to score a test based on the solving data they get from both internal and external test-solvers. While these scores and entry rows are not completely based on my testing, they were definitely influenced by my testing results. So let's just say each puzzle is worth in points about 10x my solving time in minutes. If a puzzle takes me about 3 minutes (quadruple) and another takes me over 15 minutes (Little Killer), then scores of 32 and 157 reflect the spread in the difficulty of those puzzles for a top-level solver. Similarly the 36 point Renban took me close to 3.5 minutes, "surprise" and all. I was not surprised. Perhaps my prior knowledge of tennis and my expectation the Serbian test would use it a lot meant I more quickly grasped that A, T, P made sense as the three regions. Perhaps I'm just good at testing surprise puzzles. The Indian Grand Prix test similarly had complaints about the Even/Odd/Big/Small sudoku. It was not a surprise to me. The score given was pretty reflective of my time and other testers.
Perhaps more testers would help. But having so many solvers want to compete in the Grand Prix means there are few options out there. And recognize that even with a lot of testers, the scoring will reflect how solvers gets through the puzzles on average but cannot possibly represent how you individually will solve the puzzles as you will have your own strengths and weaknesses. If you keep finding that you are spending too much time on under-valued puzzles and never solving the over-valued ones, you are probably taking the wrong approach to these tests and could improve simply by changes in test-taking strategy. Understand, in other words, there is a difference between "over-valued in general" and "over-valued for you".
kishy72 - 2013-04-21 12:25 AM
Consider this situation.Both A and B represent the same country in the olympics.
A wins 1 Gold medal and 1 silver medal in 2 individual events(does not take part in other events)
B wins 5 silver medals , 3 Bronze medals in 8 individual events.
Now can person A be given more recognition just because he has topped a single event??
As a sports fan in addition to a sudoku solver, I can't let this go undiscussed either. Your Olympics analogy seems flawed in that it treats all events as equals. Some competitions involve performing 1 thing for 30 seconds and others involve performing 10 things over 2 days. I do view a gold medal in team basketball quite differently from a gold medal in the 50m butterfly and both of those quite different from a gold medal in the Decathlon. This is why I do not put much credance in the "nation weighting of medals" as there is no real way to equate all medals from quite different competitions. What is essentially different here is we are not comparing the results of an archer with those of a marathon runner.
No, here we are comparing the results of several hundred solvers on a 16 sudoku competition for which they have 2 hours to compete, and the puzzles have varying difficulty indicated in a fair -- albeit impossible to be perfect -- way with variable scoring made known to all solvers in advance.
Edited by motris 2013-04-21 10:48 PM
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Posts: 328
Location: India | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Most puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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An LMI Player with Sudoku ratings 500- | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Way too many puzzles (too little time) | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Most puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 164
Location: Slovakia | Dear Serbian friends, thank you for a such great puzzles! I really liked the tennis theme. During solving I discovered about 10 secrets, and have a great time after competition when discovering the other ones. Converting the ideas to ALL (!!!) puzzles is really unbelievable, specially letters ATP in movable digits. Thank you once again.
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Sudoku Grand Prix - Serbian Round Author
Posts: 42
Location: Serbia | greenhorn - 2013-04-21 11:48 PM
Dear Serbian friends, thank you for a such great puzzles! I really liked the tennis theme. During solving I discovered about 10 secrets, and have a great time after competition when discovering the other ones. Converting the ideas to ALL (!!!) puzzles is really unbelievable, specially letters ATP in movable digits. Thank you once again.
In the name of all authors, thank you for kind words.
Great reward for our work.
Branko |
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Sudoku Grand Prix - Serbian Round Author
Posts: 42
Location: Serbia | janoslaw - 2013-04-21 3:49 PM
About 15 minutes to the time limit, I started submitting answers, but I couldn`t send my solutions, because the website blew out. I was trying to refresh the website, restart the browser etc., but the situation was still repeating. I lost all answers, that I wrote out. After few attempts of repairing the malfunction, the time finally ended. I don`t know how can I protest, because I cannot prove anything, what I have just written. What will happen with my results, which currently equals 0?
Jan Mrozowski
Jan,
I sent to you PM.
Please respond.
Branko |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1786
 
Location: India | kishy72 - 2013-04-21 1:25 PM
*Time frame :
I know the time frame is only 2 hours which would be convenient for everyone and which has been the case in all the Grand prix rounds so far.But for a test such as this which has a killer worth 157 points,another killer worth 108 points and another one worth more than 100 points,the test should surely be close to 150 mins (atleast).
I was heart broken that i could not enter the solution of the diagonally consecutive inspite of being on the threshold of completing it
Since Thomas' post covered the rest of your feedback, I'll just address this part. The time frame is again (usually) decided on the basis of the testers' timings. Although, here, the time frame's been set to 2 hours for uniformity and I assume the tester's times were used to confirm that the set falls within that time frame. It is fine tuned (usually) so that the top solvers can come close to or just finish the set. Looking at the score page, this set has achieved that goal. I don't see why puzzles being worth more points means the test should go for longer. But I didn't see why the test is imbalanced either. There's all kinds of points from 20, to 30s, to 40s, to 60s, to 70s, and I think the really tough ones should be seen more as a way to differentiate the top solvers, unless they're particularly your strength. The last sentence, well, I'm sorry you couldn't submit on time, but that happens to many solvers in every test, no matter what the time constraints, so that isn't really something time frame will change.
And, thanks to the Serbian authors for a beautifully themed set of puzzles. I had the unfortunate experience of breaking the 2 highest pointers pretty late, and so skipped those two, but overall I really enjoyed the test. I'll post a few more detailed comments after I redo those and others so I know where I went wrong. |
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Posts: 123
Location: India | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | All puzzles were worth the right amount | |
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Posts: 42
Location: United States | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Most puzzles were worth the right amount | |
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Posts: 3
Location: United States | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
Do not really feel qualified to judge contest. I thought I was pretty good at Sudoku until starting the Grand Prix. I enjoy doing it but seem to be completely out-classed. Where can you get experience (try, fail, learn) on these type of 'non-standard' - at least compared to "expert" book/ newspaper puzzles without quitting my day job? This is not a complaint against any contest. I appreciate the challenge being offered - and obviously others do not find it too difficult. Keep up the good work challenging us. |
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An LMI Player with Sudoku ratings 500- | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Too many hard puzzles | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | A bit too many puzzles | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | All puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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Posts: 31
Location: United States | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | A bit too many puzzles | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Most puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
I would have liked to have more than 2 hours. I felt like I was often deciding whether to try a puzzle, or which ones to come back to, based on the very large point values of some puzzles and wanting to finish them in the time limit.
Of course I look forward to more time spent solving the remaining puzzles later!
These were quite difficult and I feel that I was lucky to solve as many as I did during the test.
The tennis theme was very nicely done! I suspect there are more tennis messages for me to find if I keep looking for them. |
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An LMI Player with Sudoku ratings 500+ | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | All puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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Posts: 8
Location: Switzerland | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Way too many puzzles (too little time) | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Many puzzles were worth too much or too little | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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Posts: 24
Location: ITALY | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Most puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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An LMI Player with Sudoku ratings 500- | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | All puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | Just right | |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1786
Location: India | ajselep - 2013-04-22 2:24 AM
Do not really feel qualified to judge contest. I thought I was pretty good at Sudoku until starting the Grand Prix. I enjoy doing it but seem to be completely out-classed. Where can you get experience (try, fail, learn) on these type of 'non-standard' - at least compared to "expert" book/ newspaper puzzles without quitting my day job? This is not a complaint against any contest. I appreciate the challenge being offered - and obviously others do not find it too difficult. Keep up the good work challenging us.
Here on LMI there's been many such contests authored by various brilliant authors from around the world. Just access the monthly tests page. Also, you can check the links page for more sites/blogs where you can find Sudokus/other puzzles of such quality/difficulty. Hope that helps. |
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Posts: 152
Location: United Kingdom | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Very skewed | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | Of the puzzles you solved/attempted, how well did their point values reflect the difficulty/time spent? | Most puzzles were worth the right amount | | | What was your opinion of the booklet formatting and printing? | I have a different complaint | |
Perhaps this feedback reflects the imeediate frustrations with my solving experience - so please take with a pinch of salt.
I wonder what the point of having a competition with at least 3 puzzles which dwarf the rest in terms of difficulty and points distribution. It forces the solver to try the harder puzzles, and means that if you get stuck on just one of these harder puzzles it ruins the result of the solver. The easier, less weighted puzzles become neither here nor there in terms of their importance in the competition. I have strong feelings that if you are going to have more than 1 or 2 10, 20, 30 minute puzzles in a test, then all the puzzles shoud be of this much harder level.
As a set of individual puzzles I feel they were all good quality puzzles and I enjoyed solving them in isolation. However I am quite frustrated solving them in the context of a competition. |
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WPF Sudoku Grand Prix — Serbian Round — 20th - 22nd April 2013
