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Hex Slitherlink Author
Posts: 145
 
Location: France | I got really annoyed when I spent a lot of time on the first two JOCs and missed the first one because I couldn't figure out what "JOC" stood for (I really wasn't expecting such a puzzle type), and the rule written in the margin did not mention "just one cell" either. I know it's my fault for not bothering to read the booklet, assuming the types would be easy and classical as in the previous screen test -- but come on, would it have been too much to write "Just One Cell" instead of "JOC" in the problem name or to put it somewhere in the instructions??? (After getting the second one wrong, at least I read carefully the message before submitting and noticed it said "one cell" instead of "all cells" as I had thought, and so I could go back to solving it.
Otherwise, this would have been a good test, but I was so upset after hitting those first two JOCs that I really couldn't focus on the rest the way I would have wanted. At some point I was so out of it that I started hitting "show" to reveal the puzzles without even bothering to read the rules and lost more time because of having to understand what the puzzles were AFTER they were displayed... :(
Oh well, really largely my fault for not reading the booklet, in spite of the above complaint.
Denis |
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Diagonal Vision Author
Posts: 337
Location: Switzerland | Oh sh***: 3 mistakes ! 
I don't know if B2 has a valid solution... If that's the case I'm sure that L5C4 contains a 3 
----> Oh sh***: 2 mistakes ! |
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Diagonal Vision Author
Posts: 337
Location: Switzerland | Administrator - 2013-11-15 6:29 AM
Link to score page - http://logicmastersindia.com/ST/ST4/score.asp
Score page can be viewed after 60 minutes of `solving` time.
Please note that, like earlier Screen Tests, score page can be viewed only if you are logged on to this forum. (If you can't read the post below, you can't view the score page. )
Are time bonuses already computed on the score page?
I think you can imagine why I ask this question?
Who said that swiss people are slow?  |
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Posts: 83
Location: Czech Republic | Fred76 - 2013-11-15 6:55 PMOh sh***: 3 mistakes ! I don't know if B2 has a valid solution... If that's the case I'm sure that L5C4 contains a 3 ----> Oh sh***: 2 mistakes ! |
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Diagonal Vision Author
Posts: 337
Location: Switzerland | Gotroch - 2013-11-15 11:21 PM
Fred76 - 2013-11-15 6:55 PMOh sh***: 3 mistakes ! I don't know if B2 has a valid solution... If that's the case I'm sure that L5C4 contains a 3 ----> Oh sh***: 2 mistakes ! Well, I think these puzzles with no solutions should be cancelled. Because any digit in any cell can be considered as correct. You can allways eliminate other candidates for that cell because of contradictions : )
Yes, of course, I agree.
The good news for the organizers is that it'll not be too hard to cancel these puzzles as we know exactly how much time each player spent. The only problem is the 60 minutes time limit. |
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| | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | A bit too many puzzles | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Fairly Nice | |
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| | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Way too many puzzles (too little time) | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Very nice | |
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Typed Logic Author
Posts: 241
Location: Indonesia | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Fairly Nice | |
...I have an urge to rate the puzzle quality as below average due to the cooked puzzles. D: |
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Posts: 25
Location: United States | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Fairly Nice | |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1784
 
Location: India | BohemianCoast - 2013-11-15 5:37 PM
I'm not clear what determined which section puzzles went into.
Its given in the guide that the categories were done according to familiarity/accessibility more than difficulty.
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1784
Location: India | About the evil JOCs, firstly, I'm really sorry  We're looking at a way to fix the problem. We're thinking of going with canceling B2 and E5, and awarding [points scored over remainder / seconds spent over remainder * seconds spent on B2,E5]. We would like to know general thoughts on whether this is fair. |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1784
Location: India | chaotic_iak - 2013-11-15 8:04 PM
I'll comment on E4 instead, where the rules in the applet is not complete (no "converse rule applies", no "only three cells in the same region are counted").
This was mainly because of the rules being too long. The rules have now been shortened to be accommodated on the applet. Thanks for the notification. |
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Posts: 35
Location: United States | prasanna16391 - 2013-11-15 9:57 PM
chaotic_iak - 2013-11-15 8:04 PM
I'll comment on E4 instead, where the rules in the applet is not complete (no "converse rule applies", no "only three cells in the same region are counted").
This was mainly because of the rules being too long. The rules have now been shortened to be accommodated on the applet. Thanks for the notification.
Heh, I think that may have bitten me. When I was solving E4, I don't think the "No arrow means no sequence" part had been added. I looked over my solution, glanced at the rules summary, saw no contradiction, and submitted and moved on. Not sure I would have had time to find the correct solution even if I had the right rules, but oh well. Much happier with my performance regardless of the issues. I still wasn't going to finish, but it was great to get so much closer. Thanks for the cool puzzles! |
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Typed Logic Author
Posts: 241
Location: Indonesia | prasanna16391 - 2013-11-16 11:05 AM
About the evil JOCs, firstly, I'm really sorry We're looking at a way to fix the problem. We're thinking of going with canceling B2 and E5, and awarding [points scored over remainder / seconds spent over remainder * seconds spent on B2,E5]. We would like to know general thoughts on whether this is fair.
I'm curious whether people actually continue solving after the time is up or not. If they do, you can try removing the seconds spent in B2 and E5 and count the unofficial time for the length of time spent on B2 and E5? (For example, in my case, I spent 300 seconds in B2 and like 50 seconds in E5, so I gain an extension of 350 seconds, counting the first 350 unofficial seconds as official.)
(Ok this suggestion is a bit biased since with an additional of 300 seconds or so I would have finished the test. :P )
Edited by chaotic_iak 2013-11-16 9:23 AM
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1784
Location: India | chaotic_iak - 2013-11-16 9:22 AM
I'm curious whether people actually continue solving after the time is up or not. If they do, you can try removing the seconds spent in B2 and E5 and count the unofficial time for the length of time spent on B2 and E5? (For example, in my case, I spent 300 seconds in B2 and like 50 seconds in E5, so I gain an extension of 350 seconds, counting the first 350 unofficial seconds as official.)
(Ok this suggestion is a bit biased since with an additional of 300 seconds or so I would have finished the test. :P )
This would be ideal if everyone continued solving after time. But thats not the case, so its unfair to those who stopped. |
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Typed Logic Author
Posts: 241
Location: Indonesia | I can't see a good way out then. My opinion would be to drop B2 and E5, then let the total score be multiplied by 3600 / (seconds spent in all other puzzles)...basically the same thing as you suggested. I feel something is unfair about this, but I cannot really point it out...yeah it's weird. xP |
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SudoClones Author
Posts: 18
Location: France | prasanna16391 - 2013-11-16 8:05 AM
About the evil JOCs, firstly, I'm really sorry We're looking at a way to fix the problem. We're thinking of going with canceling B2 and E5, and awarding [points scored over remainder / seconds spent over remainder * seconds spent on B2,E5]. We would like to know general thoughts on whether this is fair.
If two players solved correctly the 28 remainder sudokus in the same time, and one spent much time on B2 and E5 as the other, would they get finally the same number of points ? |
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Posts: 16
Location: Hungary | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Very nice | |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1784
Location: India | caudmont - 2013-11-16 6:15 PM
If two players solved correctly the 28 remainder sudokus in the same time, and one spent much time on B2 and E5 as the other, would they get finally the same number of points ?
Yes. I think in the event of the puzzles being canceled, that is fair. |
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Hex Slitherlink Author
Posts: 145
Location: France | Oh wait, the displayed rules for E4 were incorrect? (incomplete, not mentioning that no arrow means not in order). That's REALLY EVIL, and I'm pretty sure it caused me to submit a solution that was valid for the displayed rule but counted as wrong.
Hmmm... Prasanna, can we hope that future screen tests get implemented more carefully? Thanks!
-- Denis |
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Classics & Regions (PR 2016/17) Author
Posts: 170
Location: Germany | Wheeee… going to http://logicmastersindia.com/ST/ST4/ after having finished the test (was wondering whether that allowed me to review the puzzles), my browser goes into something like a redirect loop. (Safari 6.1 (7537.71) / Mac)
The test was fun, but kind of stressful. Good practice. |
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| | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Too many hard puzzles | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Bit unfair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Very nice | |
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Diagonal Vision Author
Posts: 337
Location: Switzerland | prasanna16391 - 2013-11-16 9:34 AM
chaotic_iak - 2013-11-16 9:22 AM
I'm curious whether people actually continue solving after the time is up or not. If they do, you can try removing the seconds spent in B2 and E5 and count the unofficial time for the length of time spent on B2 and E5? (For example, in my case, I spent 300 seconds in B2 and like 50 seconds in E5, so I gain an extension of 350 seconds, counting the first 350 unofficial seconds as official.)
(Ok this suggestion is a bit biased since with an additional of 300 seconds or so I would have finished the test. :P )
This would be ideal if everyone continued solving after time. But thats not the case, so its unfair to those who stopped.
I thought about what could the best decision to have a fairer ranking, given the 2 wrong puzzles. It's a bit complicated and I don't know if it's technically doable, but that's what I thought:
-cancel B2 and E5 and remove the times of both puzzles for every player.
-calculate a new time limit as 3600-(maximum time spent by a player on puzzles B2+E5)
-For players who didn't finish the 28 puzzles in the new time limit, you've to estimate points for the last puzzle (the puzzle player was solving when the new limit was reached). For example, you can take a percentage of points proportional to points gained and solving time of the player in the old ranking (if a player solved his last puzzle in 200 seconds and the new time limit was reached after 100 seconds, assign 50% of the points the player gained).
In my opinion, it's the best way to do as if both puzzles never existed.
Fred |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1784
Location: India | auroux - 2013-11-16 10:06 PM
Oh wait, the displayed rules for E4 were incorrect? (incomplete, not mentioning that no arrow means not in order). That's REALLY EVIL, and I'm pretty sure it caused me to submit a solution that was valid for the displayed rule but counted as wrong.
Hmmm... Prasanna, can we hope that future screen tests get implemented more carefully? Thanks!
I'm sorry Denis, and others, for the problems. We will indeed work to make sure these don't happen in future Screen Tests. The problem here was the rules were so long they slipped out of the interface even though we entered them right. I confess I hadn't considered that possibility, and definitely will in future. About this time I agree that Rossini would've been a big problem for folks who hadn't seen/remembered the rules on the guide and relied on the interface. This seems a harder issue to fix than the 2 JOCs which can be dropped as suggested previously. |
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Posts: 139
Location: Estonia | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | A bit too few puzzles | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Fairly Nice | |
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LMI Screen Test #4 — November Sudoku Test — 15th-18th November
