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Location: Turkey | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Average | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Fairly Nice | |
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WSPC Organizer
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Location: India | I finally got to participate in an LMI screen test! (after co-authoring the first, authoring the second and testing the third).
Even though the B2: Repeated Neighbours has issues, I wanted to share what I did.
'3' cannot occur in R5C1, R5C2, R5C3, R6C2 due to the puzzle rules. If '3' is in R6C3, it also has to be in R5C4 but since it is a 'Just One Cell' sudoku (so, non-unique), I submitted R6C1 as '3'.
Pretty cheeky huh? Did anyone else get this weird funda? ;-)
Also, an interesting thought about using 'uniqueness' in Just One Cell, it sounds funny though.
Edited by Rohan Rao 2013-11-18 2:30 AM
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Diagonal Vision Author
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Location: Switzerland | Rohan Rao - 2013-11-18 2:15 AM
I finally got to participate in an LMI screen test! (after co-authoring the first, authoring the second and testing the third).
Even though the B2: Repeated Neighbours has issues, I wanted to share what I did.
'3' cannot occur in R5C1, R5C2, R5C3, R6C2 due to the puzzle rules. If '3' is in R6C3, it also has to be in R5C4 but since it is a 'Just One Cell' sudoku (so, non-unique), I submitted R6C1 as '3'.
Pretty cheeky huh? Did anyone else get this weird funda? ;-)
Also, an interesting thought about using 'uniqueness' in Just One Cell, it sounds funny though.
Hey my friend-despite-the-fact-you took-part-in-WPC,
Interesting reasoning, although it is wrong. 
"...If '3' is in R6C3, it also has to be in R5C4..." you can conclude that 3 in R6C3 is not the answer of the JOC sudoku, but you can't conclude that 3 cannot be placed in R6C3 (it can be one of the multiple solution).
I was in such a hurry about submitting my solution after having found the 3 in R5C4 that I didn't thought that it could not be possible, as it has to be in R6C3 as well (what I've seen however).
Fred |
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| | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Way too many puzzles (too little time) | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Very nice | |
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Posts: 31
Location: United States | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Fairly Nice | |
Lots of fun! Some of them were pretty darn hard, but most of them were perfect for the quick online solve. It was definitely in reach even for someone like me to finish within the time limit.
A few of them were a lot harder to do without a pencil! A good memory exercise for me to see how much of that I could keep in my head.
The colors interface would have been nice for bifurcating at times if I could have figured out how to make it work for me instead of changing the color of everything when I clicked on a color. |
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Location: United States | Oh, forgot to mention: the popup warning about just one cell was very confusing because I had filled in just one cell! So I worried that somehow the interface thought that I had submitted a puzzle with a non-1 number of filled-in cells. It would be nice to be warned about the warning. |
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Location: India | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | A bit hard | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Very nice | |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1780
Location: India | joshuazucker - 2013-11-18 4:07 AM
Oh, forgot to mention: the popup warning about just one cell was very confusing because I had filled in just one cell! So I worried that somehow the interface thought that I had submitted a puzzle with a non-1 number of filled-in cells. It would be nice to be warned about the warning.
(Semax's point too) I agree, we should've said that this will happen. That'll be noted for next time (if at all we do variant JOCs again, that requires a think through in itself), and having a JOC in the example series on interface is also a good idea.
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WSPC Organizer
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Location: India | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | A bit too many puzzles | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Fairly Nice | |
In the solving interface, it would have to better if we could have been given different colors for backtracking the puzzles. |
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Location: Hungary | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Fairly Nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Very nice | |
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| | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Very nice | |
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WSPC Organizer
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Location: India | Fred76 - 2013-11-18 2:46 AM
Hey my friend-despite-the-fact-you took-part-in-WPC, Interesting reasoning, although it is wrong.
Yes, I am also an 'exception' B-) B-)
"...If '3' is in R6C3, it also has to be in R5C4..." you can conclude that 3 in R6C3 is not the answer of the JOC sudoku, but you can't conclude that 3 cannot be placed in R6C3 (it can be one of the multiple solution).
I was in such a hurry about submitting my solution after having found the 3 in R5C4 that I didn't thought that it could not be possible, as it has to be in R6C3 as well (what I've seen however).
Fred
I know, I feel so stupid. I had a hearty laugh after I realized what I did. |
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Location: United Kingdom | Can't remember if I made this point before - I think I did for a previous screen test - but having an "undo" button seems to take away the whole point of doing things in your head. I certainly made liberal (ab)use of it... |
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Location: United Kingdom | I'd also like to know what is "incorrect" with my E5 - JOC5 - Killer solution.
I entered R1C4 as a 6. The reasoning goes like this: 13 in the bottom right is either 256 or 346 - either way we certainly can't have R6C4 as 6. By the law of leftovers this means R1C3 cannot be a 6. The 6 in R1 must therefore go in C4 because it can't be part of a 7 or 8 cage...
edit: n/m I see e5 seems to be missing on the results page, i assume it's a bad puzzle...
Edited by detuned 2013-11-18 6:26 PM
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| | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Average | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Average | |
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| | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What was your opinion of the distribution of easy/hard puzzles? | Just right | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | | | How did you feel about the length / time limit for this test? | Just right | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What is your opinion about the solving interface? | Very nice | |
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Location: Thailand | A nice set of puzzles. I underestimated myself and decided to skip two of the JOCs and end up finishing 20 minutes early. :( |
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Classics & Regions (PR 2016/17) Author
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Location: Germany | detuned - 2013-11-18 5:51 PM
Can't remember if I made this point before - I think I did for a previous screen test - but having an "undo" button seems to take away the whole point of doing things in your head. I certainly made liberal (ab)use of it...
I agree, felt a lot faster on the harder puzzles once I started trying out things. Maybe one or two levels of undo to deal with actual typos? |
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Location: India | Hi. I completed the test. But my name is not in the scoresheet. |
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Posts: 268
Location: India | Sorry guys. The ST 4 Page had this link after finishing the test. This was for ST 3.
You have completed the test. Check score page at http://logicmastersindia.com/ST/ST3/score.asp
Edited by rvarun 2013-11-19 12:24 AM
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1780
Location: India | rob - 2013-11-18 9:17 PM
detuned - 2013-11-18 5:51 PM
Can't remember if I made this point before - I think I did for a previous screen test - but having an "undo" button seems to take away the whole point of doing things in your head. I certainly made liberal (ab)use of it...
I agree, felt a lot faster on the harder puzzles once I started trying out things. Maybe one or two levels of undo to deal with actual typos?
We actually discussed a lot about this, and it is the reason why we ensured that if you change color, it'll change throughout, meaning color changes are only for player preference rather than guesswork. With undo, we're not sure what is a great way of doing things. My point is someone solving could honestly make a mistake and it'd help to undo to retrace. So the only use isn't guesswork, and I'm always in favor of keeping things that help normal solving even if they could be used towards shortcuts, so we decided to keep it. Maybe restricting to one or two levels is a good idea, but I personally am still non-committal to the same. Would love to hear more views on it.
I'll read back now to other points and queries. I only addressed the more pressing ones while I was away conducting a puzzle event here simultaneously over the weekend. |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1780
Location: India | rajeshk - 2013-11-18 12:16 PM
In the solving interface, it would have to better if we could have been given different colors for backtracking the puzzles.
joshuazucker - 2013-11-18 4:02 AM
The colors interface would have been nice for bifurcating at times if I could have figured out how to make it work for me instead of changing the color of everything when I clicked on a color.
As mentioned in my post above, we deliberately decided to keep it this way, and keep the undo button as the sole method of backtracking. |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1780
Location: India | Semax - 2013-11-17 10:21 PM
And another little thing that I don't understand: Why is there an automatic submission after 5 minutes? There are so many situations where this is bad. Can you tell me one situation where this is good?
It is probably the same reason why normal tests have a time limit instead of just saying, solve and submit whenever you like. Here the expected difficulty per grid is really low compared to normal tests, so a per grid time limit adds to the competitive aspect of things. In other words, I'd just say its easier and so we can experiment with a different quick-fire setting for it so we do. It is the general idea of a screen test (the same was used in WPC 2011 too) that we've tried to extend to Sudoku. The bigger challenge is in ensuring that at least most of these are easy enough for everyone to submit some in spite of time limits. Looking at the general feedback I feel at least that has been achieved this time. |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1780
Location: India | Nilz - 2013-11-17 3:14 AM
Given that a lot of people won't expect to complete every puzzle, 'tactics' and puzzle choice becomes very important (given that the strategy 'never skip' clearly cannot be optimal, except for the best), so I wonder if it would be better to have a more accurate gauge of the level of difficulty of the puzzles, if possible?
We were actually worried about this. Ideally the solution is to have a system where a solver can get back to skipped puzzles only IF all of the order is finished before time. Unfortunately we did not have the time this time to get that system in place, so made do with the note in the instructions. A more accurate gauge of difficulty is interesting though, just in case the system itself proves difficult to implement. Is there any suggestion on how this can be done? It'd probably become too formulaic if we say that a player with X ratings is expected to be on the border of finishing, but I see that as the most realistic way of providing an idea about difficulty. |
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Location: Germany | Is there a way to make the scoring more transparent? I have no idea why the ranking is the way it is, for example places 19 and 20 look especially strange. |
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LMI Screen Test #4 — November Sudoku Test — 15th-18th November
