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Mean Minis (2020) Author
Posts: 774
  
Location: India | forcolin - 2011-08-29 3:27 PM
What about this. A player finishes, he's (or she's) happy with the solution and clicks on "CLAIM BONUS". then he/she notices there is a mistake. There should be a second button like "SUBMIT NEW/DIFFERENT ANSWERS or AMEND ANSWERS", the player clicks on that, can amend the answers, click on "CLAIM BONUS" again. In this case the player will be awarded a bonus reduced by 50% (calculated on the basis of the time he clicks "CLAIM BONUS" the second time). facility to be used once only, if there are other mistakes he/she has'nt found the first time, they will stay.
I think too many buttons will not be good. It is understood that once you click on "claim bonus" the test is over for you. |
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Posts: 199
Location: United States | One possible solution that I don't know if you are thinking about is to not necessarily deduct the value of time bonus, but to deduct some fixed number of minutes from the total count of time bonus (similar to a WPC playoff where a mistake is a one minute penalty, but immediate grading isn't used on this test). The penalty would still only be used in the case of just one wrong, and the solver would still lose the puzzle points, so it would be a 20-30 point mistake most likely. One thing I prefer about penalizing time and not point rate is that it applies equally to all solvers, and seems to let you fairly run a test for long enough that many many solvers get a chance to finish.
Edited by motris 2011-08-29 9:24 PM
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Fillomino-Fillia 2 Author
Location: United States | Here's an idea that combines what you just said above with some of your earlier ideas about instant grading (which I said back then I was skeptical of). When you hit Claim Bonus, if there are any wrong answers,
- you lose some amount of time: maybe a fixed 5 minutes, maybe 3 minutes per wrong puzzle, maybe something else.
- you are told which puzzles are wrong.
- the timer continues, if it didn't get knocked down to 0 by the penalty, and you may correct your puzzles and hit Claim Bonus later with no other penalties beyond the subtracted time.
Awhile ago it was brought up the author/organizer has to set a very thorough list of alternate acceptable answers for this instant grading to work. The above system has the same concern of course. |
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Posts: 199
Location: United States | I don't want to take-over this discussion thread with implementation discussion that doesn't feel appropriate to this test which won't have any interface changes. But the one thing in your suggestion that I do not like is to dynamically change the solver's clock during the test. It feels safer to log potential penalty data, and apply scoring changes later (where some penalties may be removed if a solver's submission is indeed considered right for whatever reason after inspection), but make sure every solver gets the same total time for initial submission.
A rather different implementation, similar to the end of the screen test, would be to have a 2 minute "review" process after the test finishes for any solver, either when their clock runs out, or they hit claim bonus. In that time "mistakes" can be corrected, but only for puzzles that already had submissions, and the test grader will certainly see the strings that were amended to determine if a solver was fairly using the time just to check and not to do more solving. I'm still trying to decide on the right match for my future LMI test, but I think we'll really address these questions when that comes up. For Bastien's test I'd be happy with something rather simple but fair, as I do look forward to a test that perhaps 30 or more people might finish. |
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Posts: 148
Location: France | Thanks for all the suggestions. Indeed, for this test we wanted to avoid bonus systems which would have needed to change the interface; so we have decided to stay on something quite simple but, I hope, more fair than the previous system. It will be made of two parts :
1) a player who finishes early, either with 14 or 15 correct puzzles, will get 3 bonus points per minute.
2) additionally, if all the 15 puzzles are correct and whatever the remaining time is, the player will get a fixed 25 points bonus.
This way, nobody should loose more than 25 points (the puzzle points excepted) on a single typo.
The points distribution is close from what we could get with Thomas' suggestion of deducing a fixed number of minutes ; the main difference being that this way, there remains a significative difference between two players finishing with a few minutes saved, one with 15 puzzles and the other one with 14.
An updated version of the instruction booklet should probably be available in some time. |
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Posts: 148
Location: France | An updated version of the instruction booklet IS available. |
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Location: India | A small note about Akari. It is only necessary to enter the column position of left most light bulb for each row.
For the following grid, answer key is BABDACB. Same rule for Star Battle.
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Location: India | The submission page was showing target time of 60 minutes for all players with rating < 500. This was a typo and has been fixed. Thanks Fred76 for reporting.
Note that target time is just for display purpose. For everyone, submissions will be allowed until 75 minutes, irrespective of the target time. |
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Location: India | Puzzle Booklet uploaded. It has 8 pages. Each page has 2 puzzles, except the last page. There is no header page.
Flash submission enabled too. |
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Diagonal Vision Author
Posts: 337
Location: Switzerland | debmohanty - 2011-09-02 9:02 PM
The submission page was showing target time of 60 minutes for all players with rating < 500. This was a typo and has been fixed. Thanks Fred76 for reporting.
Note that target time is just for display purpose. For everyone, submissions will be allowed until 75 minutes, irrespective of the target time.
So, now my target time is 75 minutes, but what about my target points   |
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Posts: 148
Location: France | In your case, your target points are exactly equal to your number of posts on LMI forum.
Now if you are wise, you will not answer this. |
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Diagonal Vision Author
Posts: 337
Location: Switzerland | Ours brun - 2011-09-03 12:11 AM
Now if you are wise, you will not answer this.
you know me: you know that I am wise  |
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Location: India | Score page link - http://logicmastersindia.com/M201109P/score.asp
As usual, please use the score page to settle all claims
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Posts: 23
Location: United States | For Fortress, the Answer Key instructions advise: "Write the length of separate white cell blocks in the marked rows and/or columns (write 0 if there is none). The answer for the example would be 1, 1."
Frankly, its a bad noninstructive example. If there were 2 separate white cells of length 1 in the first row, should the answer have been 11, 1 (a one for each separate white cell block) or 2, 1 (providing the aggregate "length of the separate white cell blocks")
Thanks. |
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Posts: 23
Location: United States | For Galaxies, the Answer Key instructions advise: "Write the length of distinct regions parts in the marked rows and/or columns."
Just as in Heyawacky, symmetrical "galaxies" can double back on themselves and have arms or legs separated by other galaxies. In such instances should the answer reflect each portion of a multi-part single galaxy by the length of its aggregate distinct parts, or each portion separately?
Thanks.
Edited by thesubro 2011-09-03 8:02 AM
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Posts: 30
Location: Canada | Does anyone know of a good tutorial for how to do Heyawake? That is easily my biggest blind spot now when it comes to puzzles. I managed to get everything else on this test solved (and mostly correct!) near my target time, but never finished the Heyawake. I've been practicing them, and still it's rare for me to finish one. |
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Location: India | thesubro - 2011-09-03 8:01 AM
For Galaxies, the Answer Key instructions advise: "Write the length of distinct regions parts in the marked rows and/or columns."
Just as in Heyawacky, symmetrical "galaxies" can double back on themselves and have arms or legs separated by other galaxies. In such instances should the answer reflect each portion of a multi-part single galaxy by the length of its aggregate distinct parts, or each portion separately?
Thanks. In that case, you still need to enter the "different" number of galaxies. |
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Posts: 16
Location: United States | As for having fun, this test was certainly a lot of fun. Thanks a bunch for the elegant puzzles, Ours brun! :)
And the test was definitely doable in the time allotted, but that didn't prevent me from breaking a puzzle because I couldn't count to 3, restarting, getting to the final step, and then wondering for 5 minutes why it didn't have a unique solution, again because I missed something and couldn't count to 3. I ended up not solving it. Oops. |
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Location: India | thesubro - 2011-09-03 7:52 AM
For Fortress, the Answer Key instructions advise: "Write the length of separate white cell blocks in the marked rows and/or columns (write 0 if there is none). The answer for the example would be 1, 1."
Frankly, its a bad noninstructive example. If there were 2 separate white cells of length 1 in the first row, should the answer have been 11, 1 (a one for each separate white cell block) or 2, 1 (providing the aggregate "length of the separate white cell blocks")
Thanks. It should be 11,1
Note that several puzzles in this test use the same mechanism for answer key. Please check NURIKABE, HEYAWACKY, HORSE SNAKE, LITS |
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Posts: 23
Location: United States | As usual, LMI is the the top site for online puzzle test fun, both in terms of the quality of the test taking mechanisms as well as the product. Thanks for all of the hours that the puzzle creators (By Bastien « Ours brun » Vial-Jaime) and Deb put into these efforts.
With that all said, I personally stink at Galaxies and Snake puzzles, so I was not looking forward to them on the test - and my concerns were accurate. I guess I will need to wait for a treatise to be published by Motris or MellowMelon so that I can advance my puzzle career.
Folks, great fun again. Thanks so much.
TheSubro |
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Posts: 2
Location: Turkey | i dont see the password and Pdf can not open, anyone knows? (my time is started, immediate pleasee :) ) |
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Location: India | pribaros - 2011-09-03 8:19 PM
i dont see the password and Pdf can not open, anyone knows? (my time is started, immediate pleasee :) )
The password is shown below the timer. If you still can't see the password, send me a message
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Posts: 2
Location: Turkey | ahh sooo, ok i see thanx for reply |
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Location: India | Administrator - 2011-09-03 6:15 AM
As usual, please use the score page to settle all claims
All claims will be looked into. Sometimes, it might take a while.
Please check your forum inbox for updates. |
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Posts: 187
Location: New Zealand | Will the Hall of Fame entries be based on how much better than the Target Time you achieved?
Sure we want to know who was fastest overall, but the same names are always seen on the podium.
Here is a rare chance for the normal puzzlers to achieve a small amount of glory! :) |
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Sprint Test — LMI Sep Puzzle Test — 3rd and 4th September
