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Location: India | Para - 2013-03-04 10:24 PM
Nanro was really fun. I had never seen it before this contest. Would love to see solve some more. Some more examples - Thanks to Otto for sharing -
http://www.janko.at/Raetsel/Nikoli/Nanro.htm
http://indi.s58.xrea.com/nanro/
And 4 more at Mokuani's blog
Some more history about Nanro here at Author Interview page at Nikoli - that page also gives a clue to the unofficial puzzle in the IB. |
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Posts: 42
Location: United States | My correct nanro submission was rejected because of lower case x instead of upper case. Really??? Please fix this. I was over 60 minutes, so presumably no effect on my score. |
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Location: India | PuzzleScott - 2013-03-05 8:42 AM
My correct nanro submission was rejected because of lower case x instead of upper case. Really??? Please fix this. Case does not matter in this puzzle, in none of the puzzles. There are many entries in Star Battle puzzle with lower case. Also there is exactly 1 submission from you for Nanro which is marked correct. |
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Posts: 12
Location: United States | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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An LMI Player with Puzzle ratings 500- | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Nanro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Posts: 5
Location: United States | In Maxi Loop, is the number indicated only the maximum number of consecutive cells or is it a requirement that there be a segment with that length in the marked areas?
Thanks. |
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Location: India | sbeck - 2013-03-05 9:03 PM
In Maxi Loop, is the number indicated only the maximum number of consecutive cells or is it a requirement that there be a segment with that length in the marked areas?
Thanks. It is a requirement that there be at least one segment with the given length in the outlined region. |
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SM 2020 (Math) Author
Posts: 419
Location: India | I am not clear about the rules in a Gapped Kakuro I have got broken thrice and losing my mental stamina .. Makes me think that i m not sure that i understand completely the rules.
* Can there be numbers which are not part of the sums (of any clues which are given at the top or the left)
* Can a number which is a part of the sum of the clue given at the left be immediately under a black shaded cell or should that cell be Xed out ??
* Is there any other restriction other than the no number repeating in a sum and no blank cells adjacent rule? |
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2021 World Sudoku+Puzzle Convention Organizer
Posts: 1809
Location: India | kishy72 - 2013-03-05 11:08 PM
I am not clear about the rules in a Gapped Kakuro
* Can there be numbers which are not part of the sums (of any clues which are given at the top or the left)
* Can a number which is a part of the sum of the clue given at the left be immediately under a black shaded cell or should that cell be Xed out ??
* Is there any other restriction other than the no number repeating in a sum and no blank cells adjacent rule?
You are over thinking things. There's no other restriction. Numbers can come in cells not covered by any sums too, following the 1-9 ruling. For the 2nd question, if I understand it right, there's no restriction on being immediately under or on any side of a black cell, just go by the sums on whether or not something needs to be Xed out or filled by a number. |
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Posts: 315
Location: The Netherlands | Administrator - 2013-03-05 9:51 PM
sbeck - 2013-03-05 9:03 PM
In Maxi Loop, is the number indicated only the maximum number of consecutive cells or is it a requirement that there be a segment with that length in the marked areas?
Thanks. It is a requirement that there be at least one segment with the given length in the outlined region.
That's actually why it's formulated as the highest amount and not the maximum amount. I figured highest would imply it always appears. |
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Posts: 139
Location: Estonia | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Maxi Loop | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Posts: 42
Location: United States | I just reported what happened. I used 'x' in my first nanro submission. It was rejected as wrong. I then changed all 'x's to 'X's and resubmitted. That was accepted.
I later used 'x' in gap kakuro and it worked fine. Might different puzzles parse it differently?
I agree 'x' should always work for 'X'. That's why I reported it. I don't have the info to know if this was a fluke or a (nanro only?) bug.
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Posts: 42
Location: United States | It would be nice to have some way to start a new puzzle without having to wait an hour on an unsolved puzzle. I even tried to run up the clock with bad submissions, but the clock didn't jump. |
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Location: India | PuzzleScott - 2013-03-06 8:57 AM
It would be nice to have some way to start a new puzzle without having to wait an hour on an unsolved puzzle. I even tried to run up the clock with bad submissions, but the clock didn't jump.
We have reset your time in the db and you can skip Watches now and start any other puzzle. Just refresh the submission page.
We'll probably add a "Skip" button next time |
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Posts: 83
Location: Czech Republic | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Watches | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Posts: 16
Location: India | Can the submission deadline be extended by a few days? |
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Location: India | witty - 2013-03-06 10:42 AM
Can the submission deadline be extended by a few days? It is still open for 5 more days! |
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Posts: 72
Location: South Korea | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Posts: 20
Location: Romania | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Fity Fifty | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Gapped Kakuro | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Posts: 7
Location: United States | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Perfectly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Posts: 29
Location: United Kingdom | Para - 2013-03-03 11:31 PM
Nilz - 2013-03-04 3:03 AM
To elaborate on why I voted for it being a 'slightly unfair' scoring system:
If I understand it correctly, there are bonus points for being the fastest solver of a puzzle? This is OK for some tests, but in my opinion this doesn't really make sense when combined with the other parts of the scoring system for this test- the winner gets most points anyway, they don't need any more. Imagine two people get identical times on most puzzles: except on puzzle X, person A beats B by 2 seconds, and they come 2nd and 3rd in the rankings. And on puzzle Y, person B beats A by 2 seconds, but they come first and second. In my view, they should tie overall, but if I understand the scoring for this test correctly, B will win, and I think this is slightly unfair.
But apart from that, great test, great puzzles, looking forward to next year's marathon! ;-)
Everyone who finishes within the alotted time gets bonus for rank, not just the fastest. So in your situation, B gets a bonus for 1st and 3rd, A gets bonus for finishing second twice.
Ah, thanks, that makes a bit more sense. Still not sure I agree with the scoring system though; it means that the relative final positions of any two solvers may be affected by how a third, separate solver does, which seems a bit odd to me (see http://rangevoting.org/GutermanCHE.html for more about this phenomenom- particularly the paragraph about halfway down starting "A dramatic flaunting..."). But at least it does make sense! |
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Posts: 315
Location: The Netherlands | Nilz - 2013-03-07 2:33 AM
Para - 2013-03-03 11:31 PM
Nilz - 2013-03-04 3:03 AM
To elaborate on why I voted for it being a 'slightly unfair' scoring system:
If I understand it correctly, there are bonus points for being the fastest solver of a puzzle? This is OK for some tests, but in my opinion this doesn't really make sense when combined with the other parts of the scoring system for this test- the winner gets most points anyway, they don't need any more. Imagine two people get identical times on most puzzles: except on puzzle X, person A beats B by 2 seconds, and they come 2nd and 3rd in the rankings. And on puzzle Y, person B beats A by 2 seconds, but they come first and second. In my view, they should tie overall, but if I understand the scoring for this test correctly, B will win, and I think this is slightly unfair.
But apart from that, great test, great puzzles, looking forward to next year's marathon! ;-)
Everyone who finishes within the alotted time gets bonus for rank, not just the fastest. So in your situation, B gets a bonus for 1st and 3rd, A gets bonus for finishing second twice.
Ah, thanks, that makes a bit more sense. Still not sure I agree with the scoring system though; it means that the relative final positions of any two solvers may be affected by how a third, separate solver does, which seems a bit odd to me (see http://rangevoting.org/GutermanCHE.html for more about this phenomenom- particularly the paragraph about halfway down starting "A dramatic flaunting..." ). But at least it does make sense!
The ranking system last year was purely based on time left to solve. Just as this year, the worst solves are discarded. But this caused a problem because not all puzzles are the same difficulty and take the same average or fastest time to solve. This caused for most people last year to have the same puzzle discarded, even if their relative performance was really good compared to others. As the same time on different puzzles might not actually be equally good, it was suggested the scoring system could be improved. So that's why there was a discussion on how to make it fairer, to rank players for each puzzle on their relative performance in each puzzle, instead of their purely time related performance. This eventually led to a bonus system that is similar to the LMI rankings, where each test is scored relatively to the performance of the best solver. In this test instead of top score and ranking, there are fastest time and ranking. And all solvers who finish a puzzle fast enough to qualify for a bonus are included in this calculation.
I'm not saying this is a perfect scoring system, but it's fairer than last year's. And if you have any suggestions on what you think might be a better way, I think they are always welcome. There's always room for discussion here.
Edited by Para 2013-03-07 3:17 AM
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Posts: 29
Location: United Kingdom | Para - 2013-03-06 11:16 PM
Nilz - 2013-03-07 2:33 AM
Para - 2013-03-03 11:31 PM
Nilz - 2013-03-04 3:03 AM
To elaborate on why I voted for it being a 'slightly unfair' scoring system:
If I understand it correctly, there are bonus points for being the fastest solver of a puzzle? This is OK for some tests, but in my opinion this doesn't really make sense when combined with the other parts of the scoring system for this test- the winner gets most points anyway, they don't need any more. Imagine two people get identical times on most puzzles: except on puzzle X, person A beats B by 2 seconds, and they come 2nd and 3rd in the rankings. And on puzzle Y, person B beats A by 2 seconds, but they come first and second. In my view, they should tie overall, but if I understand the scoring for this test correctly, B will win, and I think this is slightly unfair.
But apart from that, great test, great puzzles, looking forward to next year's marathon! ;-)
Everyone who finishes within the alotted time gets bonus for rank, not just the fastest. So in your situation, B gets a bonus for 1st and 3rd, A gets bonus for finishing second twice.
Ah, thanks, that makes a bit more sense. Still not sure I agree with the scoring system though; it means that the relative final positions of any two solvers may be affected by how a third, separate solver does, which seems a bit odd to me (see http://rangevoting.org/GutermanCHE.html for more about this phenomenom- particularly the paragraph about halfway down starting "A dramatic flaunting..." ). But at least it does make sense!
The ranking system last year was purely based on time left to solve. Just as this year, the worst solves are discarded. But this caused a problem because not all puzzles are the same difficulty and take the same average or fastest time to solve. This caused for most people last year to have the same puzzle discarded, even if their relative performance was really good compared to others. As the same time on different puzzles might not actually be equally good, it was suggested the scoring system could be improved. So that's why there was a discussion on how to make it fairer, to rank players for each puzzle on their relative performance in each puzzle, instead of their purely time related performance. This eventually led to a bonus system that is similar to the LMI rankings, where each test is scored relatively to the performance of the best solver. In this test instead of top score and ranking, there are fastest time and ranking. And all solvers who finish a puzzle fast enough to qualify for a bonus are included in this calculation.
I'm not saying this is a perfect scoring system, but it's fairer than last year's. And if you have any suggestions on what you think might be a better way, I think they are always welcome. There's always room for discussion here.
Yes, I remember that discussion, and I agree that this year's is fairer, so I'm certainly not complaining, and I hope it doesn't seem that I am! It's not perfect, but no system would be. And it does have the advantage of being fairly easy to understand (unless you're a muppet like me who misreads the method!  ).
It seemed to me that there were no puzzles this year that were outliers and were 'significantly' harder than the rest (unlike last year), so last year's scoring system would've worked OK, but I still think this is better- just not perfect!  |
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Toketa? Selection Author
Posts: 3
Location: Japan | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Star Battle | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Araf | | | Your 3 most favorite puzzles of the contest. | Liar Diagonal Slitherlink | | | How balanced do you think the puzzle types of this test were? | Fairly balanced | | | What is your opinion about rules, points and scoring for this test? | Very fair | | | What did you think about the puzzle quality of the test? | Very nice | |
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Location: India | The score page is now handling penalties properly.
As you already have found out, you can see puzzles which you have submitted correctly. This means if you have not submitted all 12 puzzles, your rank will go down (even if the competition ends now). |
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Puzzle Marathon — LMI March Puzzle Test — 1st-10th March 2013
